I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby ExplorerAtHeart on Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:58 am

Nick1984 wrote:Communism failed because of humanity's selfish/greedy nature. Evolution would have been impossible without these traits.

What substances will they have to put in the water to control these traits in your utopia?


Superabundance.
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby Italian Ufo on Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:31 am

ExplorerAtHeart wrote:Instead of revolution is like to use the world Evolution. In a revolution you put the same thing back again, in an evolution you change.


lol about a revolution-evolution ;) i think is a perfect term
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby Italian Ufo on Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:33 am

Nick1984 wrote:Communism failed because of humanity's selfish/greedy nature. Evolution would have been impossible without these traits.

What substances will they have to put in the water to control these traits in your utopia?


and where the greedy nature comes from? the cultural enviromen which we are raised since the first minutes of our life.
I am sure in such a world there will still be defence of belives and territories but humans will be less selfish because there is no need to be.
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby Italian Ufo on Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:24 am

Superabundance is something we can have. I hope at least that some sort of privite property will be reconized, i have things i am too jealous of, just like everyone.
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby Nick1984 on Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:49 am

Italian Ufo wrote:
Nick1984 wrote:Communism failed because of humanity's selfish/greedy nature. Evolution would have been impossible without these traits.

What substances will they have to put in the water to control these traits in your utopia?


and where the greedy nature comes from? the cultural enviromen which we are raised since the first minutes of our life.
I am sure in such a world there will still be defence of belives and territories but humans will be less selfish because there is no need to be.


People will always want to elevate themselves above others, we're naturally competitive regardless of culture or quality of life.
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby wjfox2009 on Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:02 pm

Nick1984 wrote:

People will always want to elevate themselves above others, we're naturally competitive regardless of culture or quality of life.


Yes. And they'll still be able to do that - by creating art, playing games and sports, designing things, or uncovering new science, etc... rather than being motivated by greed, money and material pursuits.

You clearly don't understand the concept of a resource-based economy. Once again, I refer you to Star Trek -

Capt. Picard: This is the 24th century. Material needs no longer exist.
Ralph Offenhouse: Then what's the challenge?
Capt. Picard: The challenge, Mr. Offenhouse, is to improve yourself. To enrich yourself. Enjoy it.


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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby truthiness on Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:03 pm

I, for one, will throw in with this movement, and when the time comes, you'll find me in the streets - but - one thing I noticed was conspicuously absent in that video was a plan for transition from our current so-called economic model to the resource-based economy. What's the plan? It would need to be both local and global, inclusive from top to bottom, from the north of the world to the south of the world. The haves would need to be made to hand over control of "property" and resources to the have-nots. How are we to make that happen, preferably peacefully? If a peaceful solution is not possible, and I'm not entirely sure that it is (the current situation in Egypt notwithstanding), are there going to be enough of us prepared to fight to break the chains of wage slavery?

I notice that Will is predicting the collapse of capitalism to occur between 2025 and 2050, with the resource based economy rising up to take its place between 2050 and 2075. When capitalism collapses (and I agree that it inevitably will collapse), how will the resource based economy form from its ashes? Again, this video didn't seem to provide much guidance for building a new economy from the remains of the old one.

On a semi-related matter, as it pertains to the eventual collapse of capitalism, do we think that there will be a second oil price shock this year, along the lines of 2008? The global economy is recovering from the recent recession, which means demand for oil will rise, and supply is no longer able to keep up. Prices are going to rise again, leading to a rebound recession I suspect, but will it be this year or next year?
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby Italian Ufo on Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:33 pm

People will always want to elevate themselves above others, we're naturally competitive regardless of culture or quality of life.[/quote]

WJ FOX gave you the answer nick! Competition over skills not over a piece of paper or metal
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby Italian Ufo on Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:43 pm

truthiness wrote:I, for one, will throw in with this movement, and when the time comes, you'll find me in the streets - but - one thing I noticed was conspicuously absent in that video was a plan for transition from our current so-called economic model to the resource-based economy. What's the plan? It would need to be both local and global, inclusive from top to bottom, from the north of the world to the south of the world. The haves would need to be made to hand over control of "property" and resources to the have-nots. How are we to make that happen, preferably peacefully? If a peaceful solution is not possible, and I'm not entirely sure that it is (the current situation in Egypt notwithstanding), are there going to be enough of us prepared to fight to break the chains of wage slavery?

I notice that Will is predicting the collapse of capitalism to occur between 2025 and 2050, with the resource based economy rising up to take its place between 2050 and 2075. When capitalism collapses (and I agree that it inevitably will collapse), how will the resource based economy form from its ashes? Again, this video didn't seem to provide much guidance for building a new economy from the remains of the old one.

On a semi-related matter, as it pertains to the eventual collapse of capitalism, do we think that there will be a second oil price shock this year, along the lines of 2008? The global economy is recovering from the recent recession, which means demand for oil will rise, and supply is no longer able to keep up. Prices are going to rise again, leading to a rebound recession I suspect, but will it be this year or next year?


I think that the transition from a regime to another could be possibly violent and some guys from zeigeist seem to agree with this idea, but i am also aware that clashes would result in many deaths. It is risky but i could fight for a better world.

The other way to change system could be possible political. In italy they are creating a party that contains the same ideology of Zeitgeist. The new party is called The party of" Paradisism" and in France they will do the same thing pretty soon. However even if the party would be elected i think it would be sucked by the games and the interests of politics and old economy. A similar thing happend to the party of Love in late 1980s-1990s in Italy. The leader of the party was Moana Pozzi a notorious P--orn Star. Strange for a country like italy who supposed to be Catholic based lol.

I think the only "weapon" we have is to defuse the Venus Project/Zeitgeist ideology and speak about it to the pepole we know. Once I will complete my Phd I will also do publication which include similar ideas of the movement. Also conferences might be very useful and anybody cab orginize them.

For now we are just a minority and the few who read about this movment they just say "uthopia" and then leave.
But hopelly in few decades we will start to realize(espcially for countries that have been wealth in the last 100 years) that this current system is not sustainable
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Re: I am speaking to the guys of Zeitgeist movement

Postby ExplorerAtHeart on Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:58 am

Transition is the hard part.
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